Preface preference preference before because I've just clicked on record. A jungle's question was, should we provide copywriting as a paid service? And Johan, let's take it over.
Awesome, man. Use this system to get your foot in the door, but sell them everything else that they need. Because getting leads is great. But if they don't have a proper website, if they don't have a proper funnel, if they don't have copywriting, they don't have the right emails, they don't have the right graphics, they don't have the right photographer to make them look good, if they don't have the right videographer, if they don't have all those systems, it doesn't matter who they are. You can't represent them well, and their business is going to fail. If you're there to support them, to make their business grow, you need to educate them that these are all the different aspects that they need. When you show them these are all the different things that they need, they go, yeah, cool. All right, let me get the photos. Let me get this. You can now go and create a joint venture with all of these other services that I've talked about. My first digital agency, that's all I did. We used to build websites. We used to build websites for $500. And then after the person had the website, we'd say, okay, cool.
Now you need advertising. Let's get you a Google ad specialist. Let's get you a Facebook person, let's get you email campaigns. And so then I just partnered up with all these other companies, offered it under my brand, and it all worked. Now, in common, we charge $5,000 or $10,000 to build all of that infrastructure for them, and we have people lining up for it because that's what they want. So, again, it's not just about selling them leads. It's about selling them absolutely everything else that you can to help them achieve their goal. Because at the end of the day, nobody actually cares about the systems that we build. They just want to get in front of the Walt, to get in front of their ideal clients, just on the phone, talk to them, and do what they do best.
Yeah, absolutely. So I just want to expand on that a little bit as well. I didn't get my drink of water, but I love this topic. So let me tell you a story, guys. So there's a story of the dentist who didn't want to be a salesperson, right? The dentist who didn't want to be a salesperson. So the story goes like this. The client comes in brand new. First time that this dentist has ever seen this client. And obviously the client is the patient has got some teeth issues and just general chitchat and all that kind of stuff. At the start, the dentist says to the patient, oh, it's the first time I've seen you here. Great. Thanks for coming on board. Have you had dentist work done somewhere else in your life? And the patient says, yeah, I used to go to XYZ Dentist down the road. And so our dentist says, oh, wow, that's interesting. What made you leave? And the patient said, It felt like every time I sat in the chair that the dentist was trying to upsell me, a whole bunch of other things, and I didn't want to be upsell, I just wanted cleaning or whatever it is that I came from and I just hate being sold to.
And the dentist just kind of nodded and said, Right, yeah, understood. Yeah, makes sense, right? So patient lays back, dentist jumps in, starts looking at the teeth and notices that there's some work that needs to be done, but the patient hasn't asked for that work to happen. And knowing that, the patient just said, I left my last dentist because I kept being sold to, our dentist didn't say anything. She was, okay, cool, let me just do the clean and thank the customer and send them on their way. And months go by. Of course, that patient who had the tiny little cavity that could have been solved with a filling is now turned into a root canal and has to come back. And now not just a $300 procedure that could have been solved two months ago, but now it's a major thing and it's an extraction and it's $2,500 or whatever it costs and it's a big deal. So the dentist thought she was doing the right thing by not recommending additional services, because that's what the client said, right? But my perspective is, was that dentist being a professional, there's multiple ways that you can offer additional services without being salesy.
And always if you're approaching a client and this is going to sound woo woo, right, but if you're approaching a client from a position of love, then you have no issue with becoming or being seen to be salesy, right? And what do I mean by a position of love? If you genuinely love what you do and you genuinely want to get the best result for your client, then that comes across in the way that you speak. So if you bring somebody in and you've brought them in to look at a lead generation system and an automated calendar GHL CRM system, right, if you're genuinely there to provide a great service for that client and their website sucks, then it is your responsibility to help them solve that problem. And it's not a salesy thing. If you approach it from the position of really genuinely caring about that customer's result, the conversation would go with something along the lines of, hey, John, I'm super excited to be working with you. I'm going to create these campaigns and that kind of stuff. But I have to tell you that your website needs a refresh and we can bring traffic to it, but it's going to be an expensive exercise.
In fact, you're going to spend a lot more on generating that traffic and getting less conversions. If you update that website, you're going to get a lot better conversions and a lot less money spent for the result, right? If you genuinely care about the result, then there's no issue about you being a salesperson, okay? And yes, every now and again, you're going to get a client that says to you, oh man, every time I speak to you, I have to buy something else. And you just have to say, john, the amount of things I don't try and sell you speaks more volumes than what I talk to you about, because I could sell you everything, man. But you don't need everything. You need this right now, today, at this point. So approaching that client from a position of love, from a position of genuine care, eliminates the I don't want to be salesy. And the other point of Johann's conversation there, which I just want to touch on as well as Jungle, is that you don't have to be an expert in everything. And in fact, one of our podcast interviews, we talked about creating a core group of five.
A core group of five. And feel free to do this in the white label suite group, create your core group. Are you an expert at SEO? Amazing. Then why don't you partner up with a video guy, a website designer, a copywriter, and a tech wizard, a networking security specialist or something like that, right? Get that core group of five together, get on a zoom call together and talk about your skills and create a really strong bond between the five of you. Because if that video guy refers you SEO work, and that website guy refers you SEO work, and this networks and security guy refers you SEO work, and in turn, every client you bring on, you refer to the website guy, the video guy, the security guy. You create a five pronged marketing arm which is so much stronger than your one, trying to gather up as many clients as you possibly can, right? And this opportunity for you to not be an expert with everyone, but connect with experts in every field allows you to provide additional services to your client. Now, Junga, specifically, you're asking about copywriting. Everybody who's a marketer thinks that they can write copy, me included, right?
Like, Dude, let me write an email. Yeah, sweet. No problems at all, right? Everybody hasn't emotional attachments to the words that they can create, man, I can write you an email about absolutely everything. As Johann said, I wrote a whole email sequence with this guy that did car wraps, and the data told me that I'd done a bad job, right? It's not an emotional response at that point, all right? Data doesn't have emotions. Yay, copywriters have emotions. Marketers have emotions, but data doesn't have emotions. So if I if I think I'm the best ever, but my data says otherwise, then I have to accept that fact, right? I still like every, every guy in the cold will know this. Every guy thinks they're a good driver, right? If I ask any of you seinfeld, if I ask any of you, are you a good driver? Every guy in the room is going to say, hell yeah, man, you should see me reverse park, right? Everybody thinks they're a good driver. Everybody thinks they're great at everything. But the reality is, there are better people than you at every single thing that you do. That doesn't mean that you can't build an incredible business.
That just means that you are you. You have your magic. And if you can coordinate that with other people who also have magic in that space, you're going to be able to provide a better service. So get together with your core group of five, get an arrangement between all of you, do a 20%, do a 20% between you so that if I refer you, it's a 20% commission, if you refer me, it's a 20% or whatever percentage that you all agree on, okay? And then you go to market with that. But to answer the biggest question of that, should I do copywriting for my client and should I charge for that service? Absolutely. Hell yes. Somebody said to me once that copywriting was the highest paid form of writing, second only to ransom notes, okay? Because it's the words that are written that engage and make people buy. And it's the simplicity that is the brilliance. The first time I read Frank Kern's nine word email, like Frank Kern's nine word email is industry famous, right? And I'd heard about Frank Kern's nine word email for years before I actually saw Frank Kearn's nine word email.
And when I saw Frank Kern's nine word email, I went, is that it? I could do a better job than that. And then I went, you idiot, don't let the simplicity blind the brilliance. In fact, it is the simplicity that is the brilliance. So there are people that provide amazing service at a high level with skills like copywriting and the best charge rates that are this level, right? We just did a campaign with somebody where they spent $6,000 just on three email campaigns, $6,000 on three email campaigns. And each email campaign had three or four emails in a follow up sequence. It was $6,000 for those emails to be written. Now, not every client that we speak to can afford six grand to do an email campaign. So in your core group of five, you may like to have tier one and tier two, right? I might have a great copywriter who's not yet industry known, who might charge me $2,000 for that service, right? So it might not be a bad idea to have tier one and tier two, right? And then when you're talking about web design, we say, look, there's two people that I recommend this client.
This particular business that I work with, they provide great work. They're a little bit cheaper, they're not quite as polished, but they'll turn out to work fast. These guys, they do like the highest level work and they're at $15,000 for a website design, which one's going to fit with your budget better? These guys are great. Cool, right? So it might not be a bad idea to have your core group of five in two tiers if that works. But yeah, copywriting is a skill set. Your clients will think they're great at it. They will say, I can convey my message. Or they might say, I have no idea what to say, but don't do it for free because your service is valuable. And just the last little point on this, man, my Soapbox is getting a workout today. My last little point on this, and I mentioned this in the group the other day. Don't charge for your time. Put a multiplier on the value you create. Let me explain. To write a decent email series, two or three emails might take me an hour and a half, might take me 2 hours, right? It might take Scotty bywater two weeks because he goes into incredible research with Amazon reviews and all kinds of stuff like he does amazing work.
But whether it's 2 hours or two weeks, the value of what's created is long past that time. Right. As agencies, one of the traps that I see us all fall into far too often is trying to pay the bills by putting a rate on our hours. And again, GILTI done it where we might say, this is going to take me 5 hours. My hourly rate is $100. Fantastic. This is a $500 quote. All right? And in that time, I create a funnel and an automation series and a follow up sequence and an asset for my client. I used the emphasis on the word asset for a very specific reason. I am not creating a website and a funnel and an automation series that is literally just a delivery, like a Ups box on my front door. I'm creating an asset that genuinely has long term value for my client and I should price accordingly because when I deliver that asset to that client, that's something that they should be able to use for the next six to twelve months as a minimum. If it's a Facebook ad campaign, it may be even two or three years.
If it's a website, it might be the email series that they run from every interaction for the rest of their life, bringing them clients and maximising their their business. So don't charge for the 5 hours that it takes you to create it. Create a multiplier in your own pricing mindset and deliver that to the client. Okay, and what does that mean? It means increase your prices. Right, if it's going to take you 5 hours, but it's going to deliver to the client an asset that creates them $100,000 a year for the next five years. What's that really worth to the client? Now, I'm not saying that you could justify giving them an invoice for half a million, right, because you won't get the job. But if you can justify the fact that, mr. Klein, I'm going to create you an asset that's going to create this income system for you for five years, therefore, my pricing is going to be $2,500. It justifies it. Johann, your thoughts?
Awesome, man. Love it. Hey, guys, one of the things that you should always do and remember is you don't have to know how to do everything. You just have to know the people who can do all the things. I love over delivering, and I love knowing all the people and their superpowers. So, for example, I'll show you an example of over delivering. For those of you who don't know James Rivers here, we all know him as the guy who designs amazing dashboards for our GHL systems. But let me show you an example of how he over delivers, how he sets the scene for his clients so that they go, oh, my God, there's so much to do. And then he positions himself as the go to guy. Hey, James, do you want to quickly jump on share screen with us and show us what I'm talking about?
Cool. And James hey, guys, how's it going?
Hey, there he is.
Hey. I'm about to go to Cameron.
Nice to see you, man. Nice to see you.
Hey, good to see everyone. Go ahead.
You want me to show them what.
We'Re going through last time?
Correct. I'd love for you to show them that funnel map that you showed us just to show them what over delivering looks like. You don't have to do all of these things, but if you know the framework, if you know the high level of what this client needs in order to be successful, you can easily find people who you can say, hey, guys, I need a three email sequence written. Hey, guys, I need an opt in page built. I need somebody to grab this template, make it look good, add some photos, et cetera.
I was showing these guys last night what we do. In one way, everything I'm going to show you also makes selling high level much easier. So before, in the past, I'm sure everyone can relate in the room. You've got excited at the beginning. I don't know how, where everyone is in their high level journey, but at the beginning you want to show it to everyone you're excited, and as soon as you take them in the system, they see the overwhelmed kicking in pretty quick for a lot of people, even though you explained that it was super easy and everything else. And we found that harder to sell high level. So what we did and what we do is this is one of the services that we offer people. We go and we map out exactly all the mood and pieces of their business. So imagine this, this is like a little bit different. Imagine if you've got a snapshot that you're importing into their account, right? So this could be an example of their snapshot. And you say, listen, we're going to create and I can zoom in a little bit more here, I think.
There we go. So in here we can show them, hey, we're going to build out this page, this page. We're going to create an application page. Then we're going to have them book on your calendar. And hey, what happens if they're disqualified? We're going to take them to this sequence here and then you outline, go through the detail here. This is what happens if they're qualified. Then and only then do we want a booking. And then they're going to hit a thank you page. Maybe you have specifically charged, sorry about that. And then you're going to explain maybe what's on the thank you page. Sometimes we include some really cool things to add multiple campaigns on a thank you page. And then what's that call sequence look like, what's the show up rate look like, and then if they have different products. So in this case, this client will be mapped out of their business. They have a high ticket, a medium ticket, and a SaaS offering, right? Many times when we map this out, we'll go and we'll throw a pipeline up here with all their stages. And now what we do when they see the big picture, we take them through, we say, listen, we got people that are going to come in, cold leads are going to come in.
They're going to land right here, right? As soon as they come into this step here and they fill in an application, they're going to move from here to here. No work done by you so far. Right? Now, if they are disqualified, well, boom, they're going to move to this column and then they're going to be nurtured and hopefully we can turn them into a booking at a later point, right? And then, hey, if they book a call, they're going to move to the next column, right? They're like, wow, so all that's happening automated. Yeah. And as they're seeing the moving pieces and you're explaining it, they're like, wow, this is exciting, they love it. And then they see that, okay, they have all these follow ups here and then they're going to show up on the call and then they know, hey, the only time an example, this client here on their pipeline. They're taking them from this stage here where they made it here. And all they're doing is dropping them in bucket A, B or C. And that fires off all the other automation. You can send out text messages, emails, voice drops, whatever you're looking for in your automation.
And it sends that out to them. And then you can get payment of bone that way as well, right? Very quickly and say, hey, I just, I just sent that information over to you. You can still be on the live call like this, go cheque your email. And then they fill it out, boom, you've got the sale, right? And then this also helps when you take them into high level because now you've taken the overwhelming out and you say, hey, remember that step we showed? It looks a little overwhelming, but now we're just going to take them from that. You can take them into their live pipeline. You take that lead and look, we're going to drop them in bucket A, B or C for one of your services or whatever. You've mapped out.
What you've shown here, it shows that you've thought through their problems. You know, a system that they are going to need. You've simplified the whole thing by them looking at this. They go, oh my God, there's no way in hell I could build that myself. James has done this day in, day out. I'm just going to pay him for his expertise to get it done. James has built this as a sales tool. So now when he shows this to his clients, they're like, well, this is easy. So he's built it once, he can use it ongoing forever. James, how easy is it to sell when you have a tool like this in front of you?
That's much easier because they, they see the 10,000 foot view and they see how easy it is going to be for them to, once they're inside for them to use. And usually there's only one or two human rollover spots and a lot of these kind of setups, but many times they think, oh, I need to do this and I need to do that. And you've just taken all that overwhelmed, completely off their plate and they're seeing all these things, they're excited to get this page and see what that looks like. They're like, oh, that's that page. Okay, cool. I can't wait to see that one too. And then we describe what's going to go on the thank you page. I'm going to give you guys some free value on this as well. This is something really cool. So when we set these up many times, this is a very simple campaign. They come in here, they're going to hit the thank you page. They've already booked. They're going to get three to four follow ups. This, what you guys see here and even the way that this is segmented out here, this in itself always gets us a very high show rate.
Just doing this very simple set up, right. By the way, this last S of an S, we send it out five minutes before, not 15 minutes before. The reason for that is everyone showing up in my rooms or my client rooms, 15 minutes early because they can't read. So the email goes out there because not everybody is checking their email every 2 seconds. But as soon as they come into this spot right here, I'm not sure if you've seen my mouse. You see my mouse?
So in here, send that out five minutes out because it takes a couple of people to run upstairs to grab their phone. They're going, yeah, I got to get on that thing, right? And it always takes people at least two, three minutes to get connected. And I recommend that there I love.
The fact that you do a voicemail drop because not many people do that. Guys, I know we're running out of time.
I got one more thing. I got one more thing I want to share with you. I got to leave the last bit of value. So that's one part of it. But here's the other thing, guys. You can do special things on your thank you pages, right? So in here, sometimes we run multiple campaigns. We run an example. If you were a coaching client with us, one of our personal training clients, we have this campaign running, and then we have what's called the GD campaign that runs from here to here as well. And they run parallel to one another, maybe wondering, what's a GED campaign, right? Well, it's our fancy name for getting them to respond and talk and get dialogue between here and here, right? So what happens is we run another campaign and we can say on this thank you page, this can be a video. You guys can create it or your clients can create it. So an example, our one client, her name is Tanna. She's like, hey, this is Tana from her company. And search her company here. Thank you for booking a call with me today. By the way, below this video, there are three videos you absolutely must watch before we jump on our call on said date, right?
And then she'll say, if you do not watch, I'm not going to jump on the call. You can be that person. And guess what? When we did that with her, she had a tremendous sell rate because the people who were a little bit of a tire kicker, they went away, right? On top of that, we're doing a genie campaign where we're following up, hey, what did you think of the three videos? Right? Then they respond. Then the next follow up question is, hey, I'm going to make this like blatantly, you're going to craft this better than this, but you can say something simple as, hey, if I were a genie out of grant you three wishes. Now, keep in mind, she was a personal trainer. She would ask them, what would that look like if you could achieve your top three goals?
Or she jumps on a call.
And now what's happening is all this SMS is going back and forth back and forth, or email back and forth, back and forth. And now she takes that and copies it into the notes. And she's got a history of that, especially if it's SFX. She just has to scroll up and now she has all these juicy details. So what happened for her is she went from a 45 minutes, 60 minutes close call to 15 to 20 minutes. Now, she can have three calls in the course of an hour instead of one. What you guys do on these banking pages? Because when you add some goodies in here and by the way, these three videos were all the things that we take 15 minutes to discuss at the beginning of the call, she just eliminated all that stuff and answered many questions here. So by the time they get here, there's not so many questions. It's a matter of very few questions. And give me a credit card or here's the payment page, and she just drops people in bucket, ABC herself and then boom, they pay while she's live on the call. Anyway, that's the last thing I want.
To share with you guys, and that is the great example of overdelivering, because it's not just about selling a software programme, right? It's about creating a solution for your client and delivering that. James, thank you again, guys, from White Label Suites perspective, we're so, so proud and pleased to be able to partner up with James. James delivers just the best in value and and systems. So we have got a special introduction to James in the group next week and looking forward to that, guys. Just wrapping up their little session with one last bit before I stop the recording. You don't have to be the expert in everything. You just have to know how to connect with the experts. And as Henry Ford said, it's better to know the people that answer the questions and know the answers to the questions yourself. And the thing should be as simple as it can be and no simpler Einstein. So connect with the people, people that are in this group, because there are geniuses and experts in this group that can help you create that core group of five and that will steer you through.
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